Secret Clearance

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Author	Comment
New Bee (1/25/99 9:51:00 am)	Secret Clearance What is involved in secret clearance ? how do you get it ? Anyone know ? Also, how are the companies that require this generally ? Are they DOD paranoid types that send a marine with you every time you need to go to the loo ???
Jon Guirl (1/25/99 3:07:53 pm)	Re: Secret Clearance THe way it worked in the Navy (and I'm sure its the same, at least throughout DOD) is that they have you fill out a few forms and then they do an 'Entry Level National Agency Check' (ENTNAC). That mostly consists of flinging your name into a bunch of databases and seeing what comes out. After that, it is up to someone in your department with the authority to do so to review the results and grant you a secret clearance. A Top Secret clearance, on the other hand, requires a full background investigations, where they visit your hometown buddies, old co-workers, and basketball coach to try to determine what kind of person you are, in addition to the agency checks referred to above. Additionally, there are different levels or 'compartments' of Top Secret which each have their own requirements, on top of the basic TS clearnce. At any rate, its up to the hiring department or civilian contract company to pay all the costs associated with the investigation. Hope that helps, Jon
mike b (1/25/99 3:39:21 pm)	secret clearance A security clearance is not held by an individual. It is granted to an individual at a facility requiring it. The need to know is the criterion, ie if you need one at facility that is where you get it. you cannot hold one, you can easily ( within 1 year) reinstate it an another facility. The facility requiring the clearance should pay for it, which they then bill the DOD. If you have never held one ( or let it lapse by not working in a classified facility) it takes about 6 months and costs about $5,000. The application form is a terror to file out and you have to account for ALL time. If you are just reinstating a clearance ( within 1/2 years) it is only about 3 weeks and a short form. a confidential clearance is fairly easy, a SECRET is difficult, a SECRET with special, background investigation is even harder.
Jah-Wren Ryel (1/25/99 3:53:22 pm)	What a coincidence I am currently procrastinating filling out my latest clearance form... As Jon said, different levels of clearance have different levels of investigation. Filling out the form is a real PITA, and apparently as of Jan 1st, they've gone completely electronic so you have to use this rather poorly designed little Win16 program which has failed to print correctly for every one I know (you can still submit your answers electronically, so the broken printing isn't a show-stopper). Basically you have to account for all of your locations and activities for either 7 or 10 years (depending on the level of clearance). Your clearance is technically held by some company in your project chain (could be your contracting agency, could be your client, could be your client's customer depending on the levels of sub-contracting) and they need to be cleared as a holding facility (no foreign ownership, etc). The places you work with your clearance can vary greatly. All of them will have combo locks on the doors and sign-in/out sheets. I have yet to see an armed guard in the places I've worked, but I've heard about others with them. For the most part, it isn't much different from a normal (insecure?) job. If you have "problems" in your history, your clearance may be denied. Things like drug/alcohol/gambling/sex addictions, close (physically and biologically) relatives with felony records, your own felony record, closet homosexuality (used to be that any homosexuality got you the boot, now it is much more rare for openly gay people to be denied). Basically anything that might allow a subversive agent to blackmail you or otherwise compromise you will get your clearance denied.
Deena (1/26/99 6:35:21 am)	Form I once went for a regular FT programming at Raytheon. Or was it the job at the IRS? Anyway, the form was horrible even for that job, they wanted to know every place you had ever lived. At this point in my life I wouldn't even be able to fill it out. I moved thru alot of apartments in my reckless youth, due to noisy neighbors, crazy roommates, roaches, parking problems, etc. Like I almost even remember the address of these places these many decades later... What was funny was they came around to talk to the neighbors, to my mother's house and my apartment. But they never talked to my friends (just as well!). But it seemed like such an old custom, as if you lived in the same place your whole life and of course knew your neighbors. When the people who really know you are your friends, your co-workers from maybe your previous job, your previous roommates, etc. But that which can be measured is measured, as they say. Anyway, my point was that is filling out the form really worth it?
Elizabeth (1/26/99 8:35:55 am)	Paperwork and more paperwork I had to do this twice, once for the Supreme court and once for a major defense contractor. The forms were long and detailed. I am surprised they didn't want to know what size underwear I wear! :-) I was fingerprinted and photographed(with clothes on) and had drug screen and criminal background check and lord knows what else. Was it worth it? Nah the pay wasn't worth doing all that crap.
Deena (1/26/99 9:44:12 am)	security clearances I also worked as a fte for a VERY LARGE (LARGE!) bank as a programmer and they did, or at least asked to do, some type of investigation & credit check, criminal check, etc. Ok with me, I said. They also took your fingerprints. Also okay, as I had had them taken before and I figured the feds already had a copy of them. Anyway, the funny part is, you would think that they would want to, and be able to, actually do these investigations before you started work. Apparently not, because one of the stories making the rounds among the employees was about some guy Joe who had been escorted out of the building after working there for a couple of months. Apparently the results of the investigations had FINALLY come in and it turned out that Joe had had a little misunderstanding at another bank he worked at about embezzling some money. Pardon me for asking, but isn't this stuff computerized somewhere? Two months for results?!
TracyB (1/26/99 11:03:15 pm)	Whoda Thunk! For a dry topic like security clearances, this topic had me LMBO (as Elizabeth would say!) What was funny was they came around to talk to the neighbors, to my mother's house and my apartment. But they never talked to my friends (just as well!). But it seemed like such an old custom, as if you lived in the same place your whole life and of course knew your neighbors. When the people who really know you are your friends, your co-workers from maybe your previous job, your previous roommates, etc. But that which can be measured is measured, as they say. While in the military, I held a secret clearance. The reason they never talk to your friends is the same reason that employers never really trust references. After all, would you give the gov't names of friends that would say "Yea, Deena has psychological problems, was a big partier, a petty thief and a member of the communist party!" No, chances are you would give them names of friends who would say "Deena reads classic literature, goes to church every Sunday, and in 10 years, I've only seen her drink a 1/2 glass of wine." Of course, if they talk to your landlord, friends of the friends you provided as references, etc. they feel they can get a truer picture.
J. Matthew Sebastian (1/26/99 8:36:32 am)	Wast of contractor's time... >> What is involved in secret clearance ? Six months of sitting on you're thumb while a team of not so highly paid experts and jr. G-men try to disect your life for judgement. >> how do you get it ? You find a company who needs you to be cleared( not easy because they typically don't advertise) and you volenter to sacrifice you time and submit you're life in form state to the appropiate agency. If you do it spend time and type the form as all the time you spend will save days and weeks in the months a head. >> Also, how are the companies that require >> this generally ? They suck. It's a law that they must suck. The companies don't require it the government requires it. >> Are they DOD paranoid types that send a >> marine with you every time you need to go >> to the loo ??? Some are Worse.... You can't even imagine. Some aren't so bad.... but all have a basic level of parania. Many companies who don't even require clearances are paraniod now a days too. Used to be that a clearance meant a premium rate. I've never seen this first hand but I heard of it when I was a newbie. Now a days it's a pain in the ass that allows you the joy of waiting around to eventually work for sub market rates. They go stale so quickly that it's not worth picking up to hold too. Clearances are a waste of time if you're FTE, a drudgery that one puts up with to facilitate a good relationship with ones boss. As a contractor it's not only a waste of time, it's a cash liability and a huge invasion of privacy. Economically it is a undefendable decision to get a clearance. Write a book it will take you less time and then you don't need the stinking clearance as you can be brought on to any project as a published expert! OO..
New Bee (1/26/99 9:51:03 am)	Thanks for the tip. THAT DOES IT!! I think I've just made up my mind its more worthwhile, and quicker, to write my own little software product and sell it to passers by on the street, than to get secret clearance. There is just one thing that I am curious about. Who really takes those jobs on DICE and other places posted with the arrogant "Must have secret clearance !!!!" requirement. Especially, if they are paid with donuts or something. The postings for these jobs sound like they are doing us some big favor or something. The skill set requirements include some of the latest technologies too. Do they really find people ???? Or is there some stiff faced General out there who stubbornly posts these jobs getting nothing ????
J. Matthew Sebastian (1/26/99 4:03:37 pm)	Who really takes those jobs..... A must have secret clearance is typically not filled by someone with a clearance.. A clearance goes stall after 12 months, some after 6 months. So if you are looking for someone with a clearance you are looking for someone who is either on a government contract or just came off one. Typically if you had one at some time they will consider you. Even though they still have to pay for your clearance they can be reasonable assured you'll get it if you've already had one. Taking someone through the process from scratch is risky as many people are rejected on the first go around. Also transient contractors are an added risk as many of us don't remember all the names addresses of our road domiciles much less our many jobs. A contractors transient lifestyle makes the security guys sphincters pucker like it just tasted a lemon. They advertise those positions because they just might get lucky. If they find some unhappy dude with a clearance 1) they don't have to pay for the clearance check and 2) They don't have to keep the poor shmoe on the bench for 6 months waiting for his clearance to come through.
Don Wallace (1/26/99 7:20:04 pm)	Clearances necessary in some instances Hi, JMS, Welcome back, long time no see... I almost agree with you in all respects about clearances. The major exception I would take is that you make it almost sound like a clearance is negotiable between the gov. contractor/subcontractor and the government. (Any statements I make here are based on my experiences years ago; maybe things have changed significantly since then.) I worked as a permanent for two different DOD contractors back in the early 80's and my understanding was that any negotiability of clearances was not the case. The secret clearance of most or all engineering employees and contractors was necessary in the government's eyes in order to: read schematics, look at code, write code, read specs, handle encryption equipment, etc etc. When I took my first such job back in '83, I was made to apply to DISCO (the Columbus, Ohio based federal division that processed clearances at the time) for my secret clearance. Just as has already been stated, this was a pain in the patootie, requiring documentation of stupid stuff like recreational clubs I belonged to, etc. But to my knowledge, nobody I knew in my personal life was contacted about me. After 6-8 weeks, my clearance "arrived", IE, a new checkmark was added alongside my name on some list somewhere and I was informed as such. I have been told that secret clearance processing is charged by the feds to the contractor for whom the employee works. I understood back then that a clearance such as my 'secret' cost in the range of $10K or more. (maybe this is BS, it was the word of mouth I heard.) I also understood that anyone who wanted to job-shop (as contracting was universally called back then) with DOD firms was well advised to get on board with a contract gig as soon as possible to keep the clearance active. One thing I did hear time and again back then was that an active clearance was an asset in job searches and contracting. If this has changed for the worse since then, strange world! Anyway, just more apocryphal speculation and disinformation on my part.... - Don
Elizabeth (1/26/99 9:07:51 am)	Oh I forgot "Are they DOD paranoid types that send a marine with you every time you need to go to the loo ???" Heck yes!!! One of the places I worked at if you were not an American citizen you HAD to have another employee who was an American citizen with you at all times in the buildings. So if you wanted to go to the privy, you had to invite your office neighbor too! :-) I am not joking about this either!
New Bee (1/26/99 12:27:49 pm)	Do you mean!!! >>you had to invite your office neighbor too! Do you mean right into the same loo cube!! That would be too complex for me.
Elizabeth (1/26/99 1:35:09 pm)	Almost!!! If you were the same sex as the person, you had to wait right outside the stall. If you were the opposite sex, you had to wait right outside the bathroom door. There was this one dude from France, a couple offices over from me and it took him a year to get whatever it was that was needed so he could go by himself around the plant.
New Bee (1/26/99 2:01:17 pm)	But what if... But what if you were in an emergency and all your co-workers were too busy ? May the guy on this board who posts as POOPIE PANTS has "Been there, Done that", No ??
Elizabeth (1/26/99 3:56:33 pm)	LMBO!!! Poor Poopie! Hey you never know. It would be pretty bad if the guy had the stomach flu all week and accidently drank about a gallon of apple juice and had the major trots all day! :o I can see people taking sick days or asking to work in someone elses office for the rest of the week! :-)